What Type of lacquer? Maintenance and life expactancy?

[CaddyDaddy]

Is paint shop nitrocellulose, acrylic or something else?

also

What kind of maintenance should I expect if I want to keep a show car finish? Will a hand wax job keep the shine and luster or will it need buffing and maybe clear coat added to it every year or 2?

How often and what type of wax would be preferred to protect and maintain the finish?

It will be a garage kept, daily used vehicle. It is a 75 Cadillac, I plan to spend allot of time on the finish, working it down to a mirror, with no orange peal. (I want to make it smoother than today's factory paint jobs which I personally think look like crap, I can't believe the amount of Orange Peel even on the higher end cars.)

I do expect that I will have to touch up and spot repair, after all I have kids, and will use the car to tow a boat so its not exactly a show only car, but I do want the best possible finish to complement the antique boat at the Classic Wheels and Wooden Keels Car and Boat shows.

After research I have decided that I like what lacquer has to offer, I know that it is high maintenance paint system but what I want to know specifically about your product is will it hold up with regular maintenance, or will the sun destroy it no matter what I do to protect it?

I have to sand and reapply coats of varnish to my 18' wooden boat every other year? So I want to know if I will need to sand and apply clear to another 25' of Cadillac too if I use your product or should I go with the more expensive lacquers?

[TCRefinishing]

PS is an acrylic lacquer, to get the best results you need to clear coat and buff, google it. if you are looking for a show quality finish contact a local custom shop, spend a few grand on a paint job.

[Dupli-Color Specialist 2]

Is paint shop nitrocellulose, acrylic or something else?

also

What kind of maintenance should I expect if I want to keep a show car finish? Will a hand wax job keep the shine and luster or will it need buffing and maybe clear coat added to it every year or 2?

How often and what type of wax would be preferred to protect and maintain the finish?

It will be a garage kept, daily used vehicle. It is a 75 Cadillac, I plan to spend allot of time on the finish, working it down to a mirror, with no orange peal. (I want to make it smoother than today's factory paint jobs which I personally think look like crap, I can't believe the amount of Orange Peel even on the higher end cars.)

I do expect that I will have to touch up and spot repair, after all I have kids, and will use the car to tow a boat so its not exactly a show only car, but I do want the best possible finish to complement the antique boat at the Classic Wheels and Wooden Keels Car and Boat shows.

After research I have decided that I like what lacquer has to offer, I know that it is high maintenance paint system but what I want to know specifically about your product is will it hold up with regular maintenance, or will the sun destroy it no matter what I do to protect it?

I have to sand and reapply coats of varnish to my 18' wooden boat every other year? So I want to know if I will need to sand and apply clear to another 25' of Cadillac too if I use your product or should I go with the more expensive lacquers?

Paint Shop is a lacquer based product and does require wetsanding and buffing to achieve a nice level of gloss. We recommend using a carnauba wax 30 days after buffing/polishing to protect and seal the finish. As far as maintenance is concerned, you will probably have to buff the car after a year. On our '79 El Camino project we had to do some light buffing earlier this year and we finished it in Nov of '08. Our example is a bit extreme though, since it went to multiple trade and car shows where people had their hands all over it. We recommend going heavy on the clear coat (we did 6 coats) so that you have plenty to work with when buffing over time.

[CaddyDaddy]

TCRefinishing: Are you telling me that I cannot achieve a showroom finish with this product or did you make the acute assumption of my skills, If Im going cheap on the paint then I must not be serious about a quality finish. "Take it to a shop and drop a couple grand". I'm insulted :mad:

I'm aware of the process and work involved with a lacquer paint, the problems with dissimilar paints like enamels and other finishes. I produced trophy winning finishes with my antique boat with a $12 a qt. Spar Varnish that stands out and above others who spent $3,000+ to have someone else slop on $25 a qt Captains Varnish. I spray, sand, spray, sand... I'm pretty accustomed to it, and people at the boat shows are always asking me to do theirs next year.

I'm going paint my car with an acrylic lacquer. I will achieve a show car finish. I will account for any problems that may happen if the paint fails due to error on my part like incompatible underlying materials or poorly prepped surfaces, I won't just blame the product. But before I drop my time and money into this product, produce a show quality finish, wax and maintain it, I thought I would come here and see if anyone could tell me that the Duplicolor Paint Shop product will give me the results I'm looking for. Or would they tell me this is a beginner paint, it can't hold up, its a cheap gimmick, it will turn yellow like a bad varnish and you will have to completely re-do it in a couple of years no matter how you try and maintain it.

Do you want to sell this product, or suggest that I take it to a professional.

[CaddyDaddy]

Thank you for your reply, I just need a little more specefics though.

What kind of lacquer base, nitrocellulose, acrylic, water-bourne?
Do you have any technical product data sheets I can read?

[TCRefinishing]

Take it easy Caddy Daddy. Im just saying that the paint shop system is not the same as the base coat / clear coat urethane systems that are being used by professional body shops. I use the PS paint for motorcycle painting all the time with great results. But it is not the same as if I "dropped a couple grand" to get it done at a body and paint shop with thousands of dollars in equipment, and professional grade products.There is a reason that the body shops charge alot of money for paint. Look at the cost of getting a cheap base coat/ clear coat system, it is way more than the $20 a quart you will spend for the DC paint shop paint. Also I am not affiliated in any way with dupli color, so I do not need to sell any product. I do not know how my post gave you the assumption that I was questioning your "skills". Really I do not care how you and your 75 caddy turn out. I was just trying to give you some general advice on the paint shop system. As I have lots of experience using it the last few months. Also if you have to re varnish your boat every other year you may want to look into the modern marine wood varnishes. You may pay more for them but they will last alot longer then 1 year.

[Dupli-Color Specialist 2]

Thank you for your reply, I just need a little more specefics though.

What kind of lacquer base, nitrocellulose, acrylic, water-bourne?
Do you have any technical product data sheets I can read?

It is an acrylic lacquer. All lacquers are solvent-based, so I'm not sure what you're referring to as water-bourne?

Also, I can tell you that we agree with TCRefinishing regarding a professional paint job. The Paint Shop system was designed for the DIYer, not the professional. There are some distinct characteristics that go along with our product, such as: no recoat window, pre-reduced, fast-drying and easy to correct. It's also fair to say that with these benefits there are some drawbacks. A lacquer is not as durable as a 2k urethane and it requires more "elbow grease" (wetsanding/buffing).

However, I can assure you that we do offer quality product and it goes through extensive testing before it EVER reaches the shelves. This forum was designed to give consumers more confidence by hearing from other users and not just the guys selling it. You'll notice throughout the postings that there are some people that say they had poor results. You'll also notice that in almost every case, someone has an idea as to what went wrong and it's not a product failure. Now, I'm not saying it can't happen, but we are very confident that what we put on the shelves is of the upmost quality. And... if for some reason it isn't, then we want to hear about it!

[CaddyDaddy]

Thank you for your time. Please understand I'm not trying to comparing this to another urethane system, I'm trying to make a decision on which lacquer system I am going to go with.
Star Fire, Restorations Shop, DDL-Duracryl, and Sher-Lac are all lacquer systems and are capable of show room quality results. Are you guys trying to tell me that DC Paint Shop can't produce a show quality finish because it is a lacquer?

I spoken to a user of 2 of the above products, he loved the initial results from both products, but after a year with the first product he stated that finish was dying on him and no amount of buffing would bringing it back. Then he redid it with PPG's lacquer DDL-Duracryl in 2005. To this day, after he buffs it it looks like somebody poured liquid glass all over the car. Both products were roughly $60 a qt.

TCRefinishing: I would like to apologies for my behavior, I mistook you for a professional. BTW, do you have a brand of modern marine wood varnish you would recoment, Preferably what you have had experience with. Every wood boat owner around here who takes there boats out on the water in the Hot Texas sun, religiously applies 2+ coats in the spring.

[TCRefinishing]

Take a look at Revolution SM-1000 from supermarinepaint.com . I used it last summer on my wood work for my 86 Sea Ray Sundance, it looked great. I just pulled it out from storage this week and it still looks great even after a very cold Michigan winter, (i have had issues in the past with cracking).

[CaddyDaddy]

Yeah, if I was just putting it on a couple bright work peices, but not a whole boat that swells and shrinks. And if I scrape the cheap stuff on something, its cheap to fix too. I like a soft varnish, not a super hard resin. I don't have any issues with the painted wood, its the bare mahogony that I redo every other year.

I used duplicolor Truck bed liner for no slip grips on the trailer though. I put that sh** on everything. I don't even own a truck. :D

[TCRefinishing]

I see your point. I will keep my eye out for any new products I might come across. I like the Red Hot reference. Kinda like duct tape, I put that Sh*t on everything.

[CaddyDaddy]

That old lady for franks red hot is the funnies thing I have heard lateley:p

Do you have any experience with an acrylic urethane, like the Summit $75 gal paints. Not the $135 bc/cl urethane. Im going to try that and the duplicolor on different parts of the car, see which one shines up better and is easier to work with. I know the urethane should cover with less application, but is it easy to smooth and level orange peal as laquer is?

I really hope I like DC paint results, I like the fact that I can go to any Autoparts store and pick it up. With the Urethane, I think there is an 18-24hr recoat window. Not gonna work out as well with ordered products.

It time to do some compare and contrast for the CSOB paint job.

[TCRefinishing]

Check out Paintforcars.com , they have entire kits for $75.

[CaddyDaddy]

I finished a trial with Duplicolor paint shop.
The hood was prepared as follows.

Taken down to metal,
Bondo and sanded to p400

1 coat 5 Star - DTM Etch primer
2 coats 5 Star - Hot Rod black Lacquer Primer surfacer
Block sanded to p600
1 final coat 5 Star - Hot Rod black Lacquer Primer surface
Block sanded with p600
8 - coats Duplicolor Jet Black
Sanded p600 to p1000
12 coats Duplicolor Clear
4 days later 6 sanding sessions from p1000 to p2500 it was compounded with Turtle Wax polishing compound.

The paint was sprayed with a $49 harbor freight 1.4m HVLP spray gun. I don't recall the part number but the gun is purple with gold adjustments and a 20oz plastic cup. Not a gun to make a living with, but enough to lay down a finish with minimal orange peel.

The results are show car finish, it is simply magnificent. You can get as close as you want it looks perfect from every angle. I wish I would have started at the back to see what the fins look like again with paint on them. Body lines on the hood show up now that make the car seem to take on a whole new styling than it did with the original enamel.

So yes, you can achieve a show car finish with this paint. It takes a lot paint, elbow grease and attention to detail. Skeptics were calling this a cheap crappy paint, on the contrary I found it not to be very cheap. I can afford the time, but not the paint. At $22 a quart I have applied $90 to the hood. My problem is, I'm painting a 4dr sedan, and have a lot, i mean a lot more car to go. Its just that this is going a little expensive for just a Black paint job,

Im now trying another lacquer product that sells for for around $80 a gallon and had be mixed 2:1 with thinner at 10 a gallon. So that's $90 for 6 qts of paint vs. gallon of duplicolor. But the problem isn't just the $42 dollar difference in price, It roughly going to take another Gallon or 2 to achieve the finish desired, and that's a $125 difference.

What are the pre mixed ratios in the cans of duplicolor? I'm not that familiar with many different paints, but this just seemed a little too thin and I couldn't imagine thinning it any further.

I don't think this would be a problem if I was painting a Camaro, Mustang or some other economy car. But in my case its a bit too expensive to paint this old land yacht with paint shop. But even though I have decided that this is not going to work for me, I did want to say that the finish achievement with this product is capable of show quality results, If i was restoring a smaller car like an old coupe, I would have no issues with using it.

[CaddyDaddy]

I know the pictures arent as convincing as seeing it in real life, but I haven't seen any puctures up close of the paint, so thats what I tried to capture, and a reflection to show how smooth the finish can be worked.

Here are 2 with and without the flash. Best I could do with a 3.0 meg camera.